The 17 Day Diet is a weight loss diet claiming to offer up to 12 pounds of weight loss within the first 17 days. It’s said to help people lose weight by confusing the body, keeping metabolism in a fat burning state.
No pre-packaged foods or supplements are required. Foods are to come from whole foods found in grocery stores. There’s 4 different cycles one has to follow, each one lasting 17 days, except the final phase which is followed for the entirety of one’s life, if one happens to not gain any more weight:
• Accelerate: This part of the diet promises fast results, as well as nutrients to help get rid of fat in stubborn areas. It’s said that digestive health will be improved, and sugar will be removed from one’s diet in to further decrease fat storage.
Only 1,200 calories are allowed per day. This phase promises between 10 to 12 pounds of weight loss. It's likely most of the weight loss in this phase is not fat but water. Carbohydrates are strictly restricted, which is the reason why water weight is lost, as they are known to hold unto water.
A low calorie diet of just 1,200 calories might be unhealthy according to Live Strong.com:
“Do not attempt a low-calorie diet unless you are under the strict supervision of your doctor”
“Some symptoms of severe calorie restriction are weakness, fatigue, cold intolerance, irregular menstrual periods, dizziness, constipation and swelling”
It may also promote more serious issues such as gout caused by high uric acid in the blood. The same group adds:
“not taking in the proper amounts of vitamins, protein and electrolytes, you are at risk for malnutrition disorders”
Since much less food is allowed, this places the body not just in a deficit of calories, but also less nutrients due to the loss of many foods.
They also point out the flaws of long term dieting like this:
“You are more likely to burn muscle than fat”
It’s believed that because of the reduction of calories and carbohydrates that most of the weight loss will only be water. Live Strong.com adds:
“It’s possible to lose as much as 20 pounds of body during one week, most of which is water”
This initial loss of water will likely return once one reintroduces carbohydrates. There are possible symptoms caused by a lack of carbohydrates as well, since they are the brain’s primary fuel source via its glucose. This can lead to side effects such as:
Brain fog, loss of focus, and difficulty thinking.
Reduced reaction time, fatigue, and difficulty exercising.
Nausea, mood swings, and issues with regulating temperature.
• Activate: This changes from the low calorie planning found in the first phase, alongside a much higher calorie allowance. 5 to 6 pounds of weight loss is said to be possible.
The intention of this plan is to help the body’s metabolism constantly be confused, so it activates at a higher level. There’s no proof however that this is actually true. No clinical studies have shown that metabolism is changed for the better when one reduces and suddenly raises calories.
• Achieve: Another 2 to 3 pounds of weight loss are said to be possible. One also introduced better eating habits to stick with in this phase. Things like portion control are taught. A 17 minute spot reduction workout is offered, which is meant to be a way to target specific areas that have body fat. Though this claim has been disproven according to Examine.com:
“Spot-reduction (losing fat in one place) is not possible”
• Arrive: By this point all eating habits should be established to allow for continuing this diet for the rest of one’s live. Some occasional cheat meals are allowed on the weekend. This point is intended to help one keep their weight steady.
US News had this to say about the diet:
“no studies have specifically evaluated the 17-day-diet- and “body confusion” has not been scientifically proven”
This diet is similar in fact to other low carbohydrate diets which offer quick weight loss. Examine.com adds:
“people on low-carb diets lose weight because they naturally eat less and avoid the large binges caused by carbohydrate cravings”
EDITOR’S TIP: Combine this diet with a proven meal replacement such as 18 Shake for better results.
The 17 Day Diet Quality of Ingredients
The kinds of ingredients used are wholesome since only grocery foods that are unprocessed are allowed. The issue is that the diet itself has not been proven to be any different than any other low carbohydrate diets.
There’s also a suggested 17 day cycle for 3 of the phases. There’s no evidence that 17 days are needed for metabolism to be confused and working at a high level. The diet also emphasizes spot reduction which also has not been scientifically proven.
The Price and Quality of the 17 Day Diet
The book itself sells for $18.88 on Amazon.com, though there are also cookbooks, new editions, and reduction plans offered under the same basic diet strategy. There are also optional supplements, DVD’s, and workout gear offered.
Other process to consider is the costs for grocery shopping, as meals need to be cooked at home to prepare them the right way.
Business of The 17 Day Diet
The creator of the book is Dr. Mike Moreno, a family medicine practitioner. He has no background in nutrition or weight loss.
Here are some reviews from users who posted their reviews online:
“couldn’t make it past a couple of days because of how hungry I was”
“highly disappointed and disgusted that U had wasted my money on a book with concepts that I already knew”
“it’s really difficult to keep up, long term. It isn’t really 17 days”
“I found this book similar to common sense previous diets… no sugar, no white anything”
The common concern from most users was that there wasn’t anything in this diet but common sense weight loss tips. This includes not eating processed foods, white and refined grains, sugar, and other unwanted foods.
There were also issues with people having it really difficult to keep up with the diet long term, since there are many restrictions and extreme calorie restrictions. People also added that they regained all their weight when they reintroduced carbohydrates into their diets.
Before making a final decision on the 17 Day Diet, it’s important to look over all the available facts. Many people who used it say they found it to be hard to maintain due to the extreme calorie restrictions in the first 17 days. This 1,200 calorie limit is not advised to be followed without the help of a doctor, according to health websites. There’s also an extreme limit on carbohydrates to start with, which is likely the reason there’s any weight loss, which is mostly water weight and not fat.
The 2024 best diet of the year is called the 18Shake Diet. It offers a combination of two all-natural diet supplements. A diet pill that raises metabolism with no added stimulants, and a nutritionally well rounded meal replacement that customers say helps suppress appetite, all while having a pleasant taste. Many people have left testimonials and positive reviews saying how effective this diet is for sustained weight loss.
I cannot have grapefruit because of one of my medications; What fruit can I substitute for it?
posted Sep 21st, 2011 1:55 pm
virginia
+
It really work!!!! im very excited with my new figure... I had 150 lbs and now 123 lbs its amazing... everybody ask me what i did to lose weight and i proudly response them "im doing the 17 days diet". Im very thankfull to Dr. Moreno for share this book with us. You no even imagin how happy im now. Muchas gracias!!!!!!
posted Sep 20th, 2011 10:05 pm
kz
+
Wow JIMMY!!! That is amazing! Good for you, think of how much healthier you are now and all the things you can do that you couldn't before. Congrats! I am curious how long it took you? I'm looking to lose 50 lbs and want to try to set up goals and rewards. Your response would be greatly appreciated! :)
posted Sep 19th, 2011 1:26 pm
Jimmy Byers
the diet has been a life changing experience for me. i have lost 87 lbs. feel great.and feel great about myself. thanks alot
Bought the book on Amazon, I'm on my 6 day and I've lost 9lbs!!! This is the best diet I highly recommend this to anyone who wants to make a change and stay healthy!
posted Sep 12th, 2011 1:45 pm
Annick
+
WOW !!! Amazing ! I follow everything by the book...and in 5 days I have lost 6 pound ! So far so good !! I have lots of energy ..went to 170lbs to 164lbs...30lbs to go !!
posted Sep 12th, 2011 12:02 pm
tom
can you eat 94% fat free microwave popcorn on the 17 day diet
posted Sep 11th, 2011 2:58 pm
Terry
+
I am on the 2nd 17 day now and have lost a total of 17 pounds and I am not hungry. My Doctor highly recommended it.
posted Sep 10th, 2011 7:23 pm
Dixiejet
For those of you who keep asking if you can have this or that...GET THE BOOK & it will TELL you what you can & cannot have on each cycle. If you are not losing the weight then follow the diet TO THE LETTER & you should see a difference . But you have to follow it TO THE LETTER. I did and I've NOW lost 32 pounds since May 16th . It WORKS but you HAVE to be DILIGENT & DETERMINED.
i dislike eggs and yogurt and eat very little meat. what can i substitute for these products in your diet.
posted Sep 4th, 2011 5:49 pm
pinky
hi guys
i started this diet to loose my post pregnancy weight. i have fiinished first 2 cycles of this diet. not gained my target weight loss so again going back to cycle 1. i lost nine and half pounds and 2 inches on tummy and butt area, no change in breast size. there were some days when i don't loose any weight at all. as i have always been healthy eater, no junk food eater. i think body find it hard to loose weight so easily like others. i am a pure vegetarian, so i was using non meat protein food. though results weren't as expected but still i would continue doing cycle 1and 2 and cheating only on weekends. may be at some point of time, i would gain my target weight loss. best of luck to you all.
posted Sep 3rd, 2011 1:48 pm
janice
can you drink skim milk or buttermilk on this diet, and if so how much and at what cycle?
posted Sep 3rd, 2011 10:38 am
Janice
Can you dring skim milk or buttermilk on the 17 day diet, if so how much per day and at what cycle? thanks Janice
posted Sep 3rd, 2011 10:30 am
Evelyn
I've been on this diet for 8 days now and I've lost 8 pounds!! Loving it!
posted Sep 1st, 2011 3:10 pm
Jim E
?
During Phase 2 of the 17 day diet, does 1/2 cup of old fashioned oatmeal mean the amount before cooking or after? Big difference!
During Phase 2 of the 17 Day Diet, does 1/2 cup of old fashioned oatmeal mean the amount before cooking or after? Big difference!
I am on the diet ,lost 16 lbs. Ihad surgery on 18th and have 6 wks recouping and reached a slump ,will go back to 1st cycle was on 3rd.waiting to be done recouping first as i cant exercise .. i eat a fat burning soup as a filler and nutrition . any one have some suggestions .i do not cheat either .no treats ...
posted Aug 31st, 2011 5:46 am
anna b
when can i start eating peanut butter on my toast???
posted Aug 29th, 2011 9:59 pm
Annelies van Langen
+
wanted to loose 5 kilo weight, after 14 days lost alraedy 4 of them, feel great, easy to do the diet.
posted Aug 27th, 2011 9:04 am
Erin
+
I'm on the 14th day of the 1st cycle. I've lost ten pounds and really believe this book will change my life. I've dropped 2 pants sizes and can visibly see results, especially in my stomach area, which is my problem area. I always worked out before but wasn't eating right so never saw any results. With this book and my regular work out routine ( cardio and weights about 4 times a week) I will very soon reach my weightloss goal.
The 17 Day Diet is a weight loss plan available in a book from Dr. Mike Moreno, a family medicine practitioner in San Diego, CA. His book was born of a weight loss plan he prescribed to his overweight patients, namely as a way to manage the holidays. The friendly Dr. Mike, as he is known to his patients, is proactive in helping them manage their health and weight, and even created a program called "Walk with Your Doc" back in 2008. Two days a week he and patients meet for a walk to encourage them to exercise and keep the doctor-patient relationship thriving.
In November 2010, The 17 Day Diet debuted on an episode of Dr. Phil with a raving endorsement from the doctor. That appearance was immediately followed by one on The Doctors (the two shows are jointly produced), and a weight loss challenge between viewers of each program initiated. The self-published book was an overnight success and Moreno's supply could not keep up with the overwhelming demand.
In spring 2011, Moreno fielded multiple offers from publishing houses interested in purchasing the book's rights, and he awarded those to Simon & Schuster, who immediately ran a second printing of the book. The only difference was a revised cover. This second printing helped push The 17 Day Diet to sales of more than one million copies by the end of 2011.
During 2011, Moreno and his publishers also produced the 17 Day Diet Workbook, a Spanish-language version of the book, and started work on a 17 Day Diet Cookbook that will debut in spring 2012. They also started a partnership with Bistro M.D. to manage a 17 Day Diet meal plan, with meals suited to the diet's specifications delivered to customers at home.
How the 17 Day Diet Works
The 17 Day Diet relies on a style of weight loss known as metabolic confusion, which means you're changing up what you're doing on a regular basis to keep your body from settling in to a routine.
Like many popular diet programs, 17 Day Diet is cyclical, using four phases, or cycles, to progress people from start to goal. The diet itself does not actually last a mere 17 days, instead, that is the length of time for each of the four cycles.
Cycle 1: Accelerate. Jump start the program and facilitate rapid weight loss, cleansing, and fat burning. Discourages fat storage.
Cycle 2: Activate. During this cycle you will "reset" your metabolism.
Cycle 3: Achieve. Develop healthy eating habits, and develop a new understanding of how to eat carbs.
Cycle 4: Arrive. Considered the maintenance phase and the culmination of what was learned in the first three cycles. On weekends, you have freedom to enjoy just about anything you like.
If you make it to cycle four and have not yet reached your goal, then it is encouraged and advised that you jump back to another cycle and continue your efforts, on schedule. Cycle four is considered the maintenance phase, and is reserved for those who've reached goal by following the guidance outlined in the first three cycles.
The 17 Day Diet provides direction for a healthy way of eating that is sustainable - it's clean, includes healthy carbohydrates, lean proteins, healthy fats, and eliminates processed and fried foods.
The fitness aspect is minimal, especially at the start with only 17 minutes of exercise per day proposed. However, followers are encouraged to do more as they are physically able and comfortable to expand their fitness regimen.
PRO
Created by a medical doctor who specializes in weight loss
Promotes clean eating
Possible to lose weight at a steady and healthy rate
Includes a maintenance plan
The "diet" is sustainable
Provides a clear and organized eating plan
Promotes exercise
Book is available nationally
Spanish-language version available
Vegetarian-friendly
Diabetic-friendly for types 1 and 2
Diet is flexible to suit unique dietary needs or taste
Some food specifications create confusion with users
Recommended rate of weight loss exceeds most industry standards of 1-2 pounds per week
No online community support or access to experts
Beginner exercise recommendation is lower than industry standard of 30 minutes per day
EXERCISE
The 17 Day Diet makes minimal recommendations for exercise; however, like many diet plans, it does not dismiss the necessity of a regular fitness regimen completely.
For beginners, the 17 Day Diet recommends a mere 17 minutes of exercise each day. This can be as simple as walking, you can follow along with the 17-minute workout DVD that is sold on the book's website.
As you progress through the program, become stronger and more able-bodied (for those with no prior history of exercise), the advice is still loose but encourages you to double or triple the amount of time you spend working out each day. Guidance is given to do activities that you love, with walking always being a go-to sport.
Cycle 1: 17 minutes of exercise per day
Cycle 2: 17 minutes of exercise per day
Cycle 3: 40-60 minutes of aerobic exercise most days
Cycle 4: Try to do an hour on the weekends, in addition to a regular regimen throughout the week
DIET and NUTRITION
The 17 Day Diet relies on a cycled eating plan to help you lose weight. During four cycles, each lasting 17 days (or longer in cycle four), you'll change how many servings of healthy carbohydrates, lean proteins, and healthy fats that you eat each day.
Overall, The 17 Day Diet is a clean-eating plan, with guidance to eat the "right" kind of carbs, meaning white grains and fresh fruits and vegetables, not processed "white foods," like bread, crackers, and cookies. You'll eliminate processed foods, processed sugar, and fried foods; you might balk at the thought of this, but it's guidance that any healthy eating plan is going to provide.
Each of the four cycles has its own objective, whether it be jump starting your fat burn, resetting your metabolism, teaching portion control, or recognizing true hunger. Through this process, you'll actually start to crave the foods that are nourishing your body, like a meal of roasted turkey with asparagus, rather than a burger and fries.
It's fair to want to know exactly what you'll be eating before taking on a new diet. The 17 Day Diet book outlines detailed meal plans for each day of each cycle, so all you have to do is shop and prepare, eliminating the worry and frustration over what you can or cannot eat. The following is a snapshot of what a day of meals look like on each 17 Day Day cycle:
Rate of Weight Loss*: 5-10% of total body weight; 10-20 pounds
Breakfast: Plain low-fat yogurt with fresh berries, green tea
Lunch: Green salad with a variety of vegetables like tomato and cucumber with a homemade vinaigrette, green tea
Dinner: Grilled salmon, choice of raw or steamed vegetables, green tea
Snacks: Sugar-free fruit-flavored yogurt, choice of one fruit
Cycle 2: Activate
Goal: Rest the metabolism, stimulate fat burn
Rate of Weight Loss*: Half of cycle 1; 5-10 pounds
Breakfast: Scrambled egg whites, half grapefruit or in-season fruit, green tea
Lunch: Baby spinach salad with tomatoes and feta and homemade vinaigrette, green tea
Dinner: Grilled turkey patties, side salad, green tea
Snacks: Fresh berries, plain low-fat yogurt
Cycle 3: Achieve
Goal: Nurture healthy eating habits, reintroduce more foods, move closer to goal weight
Rate of Weight Loss*: Half of cycle 2; 2.5-5 pounds
Breakfast: High-fiber cereal with skim milk, fresh berries, green tea
Lunch: Whole-wheat pita with lettuce, tomoato, feta cheese, Italian dressing; baby carrots; green tea
Dinner: Barbecued boneless chicken breast, steamed vegetables like asparagus or broccoli, green tea
Snacks: choice of one fruit, Skinny Cow ice cream sandwich
Cycle 4: Arrive
Goal: Maintain goal weight
Brunch: Blueberry waffles with syrup, turkey sausage, orange juice Dinner: Grilled chicken breast, steam broccoli, green tea Snacks: Sugar-free fruit-flavored yogurt, raw baby carrots
These rates of weight loss were determined during an interview with Dr. Mike Moreno in 2011. This is the amount of weight he says you could safely lose within each cycle. Pounds lost are based on a 200-pound person. The industry standard rate of weight loss is 1-2 pounds per week.
The 17 Day Diet Meal Plan from Bistro MD
If you're short on time or not yet comfortable with your skills in the kitchen, the 17 Day Diet Meal Plan is available from Bistro MD, a leader in the meal delivery space. Each meal follows your progress through each cycle, each day to help keep you in line with the 17 Day Diet guidelines.
17 Day Diet Special Notes
The diet is suitable for both type 1 and type 2 diabetics. In an interview with Dr. Mike Moreno in 2011, he noted some type 2 diabetics have used 17 Day Diet and reduced or eliminated their need for medications. For type 1 diabetics, he advises more diligent assessment of sugar levels.
The diet is flexible enough to meet the needs of vegetarians. You'll simply modify the protein suggestions, for instance, replacing fish and chicken with soy, dairy, and legumes.
Those who don't care for seafood or fish can also alter the diet and replace with the other lean protein of their choice, like turkey, chicken or pork.
If green tea doesn't appeal to you, this can also be skipped by replacing with a green tea supplement and/or at least one cup of the tea each day.
I and my husband have been on this diet since May and I have lost 45lbs, went from a size 16 to a size 8 and my husband has lost 40lbs so far.This is by far the best "diet" I have been on. It is so easy and such a great change in our eating habits. - Tessa Letzinger 12/31/11
I lost 7 lbs in the first week and I feel great. I will continue on until I reach my goal weight.I am really excited and I feel so much in control. Unlike other diets this is very realistic. - Tammy 12/13/11
I've been on this diet for 40 days now, and I've lost a total of 25 lbs!I love this diet, and feel so healthy on it. Its the diet plan I have been waiting for! - Beth 12/8/11
I have lost 60 lbs in 7 months.I feel great am doing things I haven't been able to do in years. My diabetes is under control. - Susan C. 10/9/11
This is the greatest diet there has been and it does WORK if you eat what he tells you to eat and don't cheat.Healthwise, it makes you feel so much better and it is because of what you are putting in your mouth. - Carol 8/15/11
The 17 Day Diet, by Dr. Mike Moreno, only debuted in 2010 and quickly rose to compete with some of the biggest and oldest names in dieting. The book comes with mostly sound nutritional and fitness guidance and is oulined in such a way that makes it easy, almost effortless, to follow and see results.
One of the best things about this weight loss plan is its design to not only help you lose weight, but set you up for sustainable weight maintenance, which is the true sign of a quality program.
It's availability via a book makes it widely accessible and affordable, so there are no on-going fees, unexpected charges, or recurring needs to re-subscribe. Purchase it once and you could use it for life.
On The 17 Day Diet you'll "re-learn" how to eat, focusing on a balanced diet of lean proteins, whole grains, fresh fruits ad vegetables; and you'll eliminate the junk and processed foods that were no doubt a culprit in your weight and health issues.
Be sure to follow the fitness guidance, as moderate as they may be. If you're comfortable with doing more, speak with a trainer, medical professional, or continue to follow your own tried-and-true regimen of daily physical activity.
User Feedback
(Page 11 of 56, 1103 total comments)Carolyn Prince
I cannot have grapefruit because of one of my medications; What fruit can I substitute for it?
posted Sep 21st, 2011 1:55 pmvirginia
+It really work!!!! im very excited with my new figure... I had 150 lbs and now 123 lbs its amazing... everybody ask me what i did to lose weight and i proudly response them "im doing the 17 days diet". Im very thankfull to Dr. Moreno for share this book with us. You no even imagin how happy im now. Muchas gracias!!!!!!
posted Sep 20th, 2011 10:05 pmkz
+Wow JIMMY!!! That is amazing! Good for you, think of how much healthier you are now and all the things you can do that you couldn't before. Congrats! I am curious how long it took you? I'm looking to lose 50 lbs and want to try to set up goals and rewards. Your response would be greatly appreciated! :)
posted Sep 19th, 2011 1:26 pmJimmy Byers
the diet has been a life changing experience for me. i have lost 87 lbs. feel great.and feel great about myself. thanks alot
posted Sep 18th, 2011 1:48 pmDebbie
?Is there a 17 day diet cookbook?
Renee
+Bought the book on Amazon, I'm on my 6 day and I've lost 9lbs!!! This is the best diet I highly recommend this to anyone who wants to make a change and stay healthy!
posted Sep 12th, 2011 1:45 pmAnnick
+WOW !!! Amazing ! I follow everything by the book...and in 5 days I have lost 6 pound ! So far so good !! I have lots of energy ..went to 170lbs to 164lbs...30lbs to go !!
posted Sep 12th, 2011 12:02 pmtom
can you eat 94% fat free microwave popcorn on the 17 day diet
posted Sep 11th, 2011 2:58 pmTerry
+I am on the 2nd 17 day now and have lost a total of 17 pounds and I am not hungry. My Doctor highly recommended it.
posted Sep 10th, 2011 7:23 pmDixiejet
For those of you who keep asking if you can have this or that...GET THE BOOK & it will TELL you what you can & cannot have on each cycle. If you are not losing the weight then follow the diet TO THE LETTER & you should see a difference . But you have to follow it TO THE LETTER. I did and I've NOW lost 32 pounds since May 16th . It WORKS but you HAVE to be DILIGENT & DETERMINED.
posted Sep 10th, 2011 6:41 pmpc
i dislike eggs and yogurt and eat very little meat. what can i substitute for these products in your diet.
posted Sep 4th, 2011 5:49 pmpinky
hi guys
posted Sep 3rd, 2011 1:48 pmi started this diet to loose my post pregnancy weight. i have fiinished first 2 cycles of this diet. not gained my target weight loss so again going back to cycle 1. i lost nine and half pounds and 2 inches on tummy and butt area, no change in breast size. there were some days when i don't loose any weight at all. as i have always been healthy eater, no junk food eater. i think body find it hard to loose weight so easily like others. i am a pure vegetarian, so i was using non meat protein food. though results weren't as expected but still i would continue doing cycle 1and 2 and cheating only on weekends. may be at some point of time, i would gain my target weight loss. best of luck to you all.
janice
can you drink skim milk or buttermilk on this diet, and if so how much and at what cycle?
posted Sep 3rd, 2011 10:38 amJanice
Can you dring skim milk or buttermilk on the 17 day diet, if so how much per day and at what cycle? thanks Janice
posted Sep 3rd, 2011 10:30 amEvelyn
I've been on this diet for 8 days now and I've lost 8 pounds!! Loving it!
posted Sep 1st, 2011 3:10 pmJim E
?During Phase 2 of the 17 day diet, does 1/2 cup of old fashioned oatmeal mean the amount before cooking or after? Big difference! During Phase 2 of the 17 Day Diet, does 1/2 cup of old fashioned oatmeal mean the amount before cooking or after? Big difference!
sharon
+I am on the diet ,lost 16 lbs. Ihad surgery on 18th and have 6 wks recouping and reached a slump ,will go back to 1st cycle was on 3rd.waiting to be done recouping first as i cant exercise .. i eat a fat burning soup as a filler and nutrition . any one have some suggestions .i do not cheat either .no treats ...
posted Aug 31st, 2011 5:46 amanna b
when can i start eating peanut butter on my toast???
posted Aug 29th, 2011 9:59 pmAnnelies van Langen
+wanted to loose 5 kilo weight, after 14 days lost alraedy 4 of them, feel great, easy to do the diet.
posted Aug 27th, 2011 9:04 amErin
+I'm on the 14th day of the 1st cycle. I've lost ten pounds and really believe this book will change my life. I've dropped 2 pants sizes and can visibly see results, especially in my stomach area, which is my problem area. I always worked out before but wasn't eating right so never saw any results. With this book and my regular work out routine ( cardio and weights about 4 times a week) I will very soon reach my weightloss goal.
posted Aug 25th, 2011 12:37 pm